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秒殺中醫(yī)理論系列之二 —— 秒殺陰陽(更有趣味性,不可錯過!) [復制鏈接]

論壇徽章:
0
31 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 03:08 |只看該作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 02:15 發(fā)表

他在《原子核物理學》一書中提出:“有兩個參數:微觀粒子的位置和速度,可以確定該微觀粒子的運動。不過,任何時候也不可能同時準確地了解這兩個參數。任何時候也不可能同時了解:微觀粒子處于何處,以多大的速度和向哪個方向運動。如果進行實驗測量,如精確地測定粒子在特定時刻所處的位置,那么運動即遭到破壞,以致以后不可能重新找到該粒子。反之,如果精確地測出它的速度,那么它的位置圖象就完全模糊不清。”


注意這里微觀世界里測量對測量對象造成改變的必然性,與我們宏觀世界中所理解的測量誤差是不一樣的。


用腳趾頭想想,就知道“微觀粒子的位置和速度,可以確定該微觀粒子的運動”這樣的錯誤不可能是Heisenberg的錯誤,一定是翻譯的錯。Heisenberg甚至不肯用位置:
Heisenberg's paper did not admit any unobservable quantities like the exact position of the electron in an orbit at any time; he only allowed the theorist to talk about the Fourier components of the motion.


再給你引一段:
The uncertainty principle is often explained as the statement that the measurement of position necessarily disturbs a particle's momentum, and vice versa—i.e., that the uncertainty principle is a manifestation of the observer effect.

This common explanation is incorrect, because the uncertainty principle is not caused by observer-effect measurement disturbance.


科普完了,別在測不準里頭尋找不可知的理論依據,回頭去回答LZ的問題吧。

論壇徽章:
0
32 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 03:14 |只看該作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 02:15 發(fā)表
http://learn.tsinghua.edu.cn:808 ... ges/heisenberg4.htm
他在《原子核物理學》一書中提出:“有兩個參數:微觀粒子的位置和速度,可以確定該微觀粒子的運動。

據說你是物理科出身。誰是你的老師,你去問問他,不加評判的這樣引用,是不是給Heisenberg抹黑?

論壇徽章:
0
33 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 03:15 |只看該作者
原帖由 terristwin 于 2009-6-2 02:53 發(fā)表
希望到明晚能看到教徒們的驚艷表現utu:" /> 本來我問的問題都很有趣味性 不探討一下多么可惜  女入黨積極分子 發(fā)情的母豬


你已經很驚艷了。我也學你張冠李戴一下
下面兩段話分開看都不怎么驚艷,合在一起看就很驚艷了!
http://bbs2.chinaunix.net/viewthread.php?tid=1455691&extra=&page=14

原帖由 terristwin 于 2009-5-30 01:54 發(fā)表
剛走了幾個傳統(tǒng)逃法的,又來了一個裝不懂漢語的,中醫(yī)神教人才輩出!
看來我得加一句話:想回復此貼者,請先確認自己認識漢字,并具有小學級的閱讀理解水平!說中醫(yī)教徒有初中水平都是高估了


原帖由 terristwin 于 2009-5-30 02:38 發(fā)表 [url=redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=10622541&ptid=1455691][/url]


老師讓你用牛頓第二運動定律解應用題,你把牛頓第二運動定律寫上就算解題呀?

請直接回答我一樓的問題,我看不懂這些鬼話,車輪大法和跳大神理論我也看不懂!是個男人就別當縮頭烏龜,會就說,不會就說不會!

[ 本帖最后由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:51 編輯 ]

論壇徽章:
0
34 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 03:42 |只看該作者
原帖由 tom_xx_hu@yahoo 于 2009-6-2 03:08 發(fā)表


科普完了,別在測不準原理里頭尋找不可知的理論依據


雖然我就這么被你“科普”完了,但不得不申辯一下我一點也沒有想用測不準原理來支持中醫(yī),而是當成兩個完全不同的話題,每次討論測不準原理我都是嚴格限制在微觀量子領域的,你從我回復的所有帖子都能看出,我最反感的就是將一門學科的概念原理濫用到其他學科甚至“宇宙”上,如同terristwin之流一樣。對那個terristwin我已經沒什么鳥興趣了。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principlestates that certain pairs of physical properties, like position andmomentum, cannot both be known to arbitrary precision. That is, themore precisely one property is known, the less precisely the other canbe known. It is impossible to measure simultaneously both position andvelocity of a microscopic particle with any degree of accuracy orcertainty. This is not a statement about the limitations of aresearcher's ability to measure particular quantities of a system, butrather about the nature of the system itself and hence it expresses aproperty of the universe.
In quantum mechanics, a particle is described by a wave.The position is where the wave is concentrated and the momentum is thewavelength. The position is uncertain to the degree that the wave isspread out, and the momentum is uncertain to the degree that thewavelength is ill-defined.
The only kind of wave with a definite position is concentrated atone point, and such a wave has an indefinite wavelength. Conversely,the only kind of wave with a definite wavelength is an infinite regularperiodic oscillation over all space, which has no definite position. Soin quantum mechanics, there are no states that describe a particle withboth a definite position and a definite momentum. The more precise theposition, the less precise the momentum.
The uncertainty principle can be restated in terms of measurements, which involves collapse of the wavefunction.When the position is measured, the wavefunction collapses to a narrowbump near the measured value, and the momentum wavefunction becomesspread out. The particle's momentum is left uncertain by an amountinversely proportional to the accuracy of the position measurement. Theamount of left-over uncertainty can never be reduced below the limitset by the uncertainty principle, no matter what the measurementprocess.
This means that the uncertainty principle is related to the observer effect, with which it is often conflated.The uncertainty principle sets a lower limit to how small the momentumdisturbance in an accurate position experiment can be, and vice versafor momentum experiments.
A mathematical statement of the principle is that every quantum state has the property that the root-mean-square (RMS) deviation of the position from its mean (the standard deviation of the X-distribution):
times the RMS deviation of the momentum from its mean (the standard deviation of P):
can never be smaller than a fixed fraction of Planck's constant:
Any measurement of the position with accuracy collapses the quantum state making the standard deviation of the momentum larger than .

[ 本帖最后由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:53 編輯 ]

論壇徽章:
0
35 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 03:45 |只看該作者
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Uncertainty_principle
最好是看看鏈接原文

The uncertainty principle,' sometimes called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, states that interaction and mechanical action come in quanta, that is, in discrete units. While one can detect an integral number of quanta, one cannot detect one half or two thirds of a quantum. The quantum of interaction joins the quanta of energy, time, and space in the current description of the world. The size of all these quanta is small—which is why they appear continuous—and determined by the size of Planck's Constant.

Thus, in quantum physics, the outcome of even an ideal measurement of a system is not deterministic, but instead is characterized by a probability distribution, and the larger the associated standard deviation is, the more "uncertain" one might say that characteristic is for the system. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle gives a lower bound on the product of the standard deviations of position and momentum for a system, implying that it is impossible to have a particle that has an arbitrarily well-defined position and momentum simultaneously. More precisely, the product of the standard deviations \Delta x \Delta p \geq \hbar/2, where \hbar (pronounced "h-bar") is Planck's constant, h, divided by 2π (the circumference of the unit circle).

The principle generalizes to many other pairs of quantities besides position and momentum. Examples of such complementary pairs are angular momentum about two different axes, and mass-energy in time, and can be derived directly from the axioms of quantum mechanics.

Note that the uncertainties in question are characteristic of the nature of the physical world. In any real-world measurement, there will also be additional uncertainties created by the non-ideal and imperfect measurement process. The uncertainty principle holds true regardless of whether the measurements are ideal (sometimes called von Neumann measurements) or non-ideal (Landau measurements). Note also that the product of the uncertainties, of order 10−35 Joule-seconds, is so small that the uncertainty principle has negligible effect on objects of macroscopic scale and things appear to be continuous rather than quantal, rather like the pixels of a photo on a computer screen that, from a distance, blend into a continuum.

The uncertainty principle was an important step in the development of quantum mechanics when it was discovered by Werner Heisenberg in 1927. It is connected to the observer effect—that observation requires interaction, and interaction involves a quantum of change, an unavoidable "disturbance" of the thing being observed.

論壇徽章:
0
36 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 04:00 |只看該作者
原帖由 tom_xx_hu@yahoo 于 2009-6-2 03:14 發(fā)表

據說你是物理科出身。誰是你的老師,你去問問他,不加評判的這樣引用,是不是給Heisenberg抹黑?


我還特地說明給你推薦的“不傷腦細胞”的“小品文”,真是可惜了我對你的情商的估計。以后我對你的回復一定都會很嚴肅的。參看34和35樓

論壇徽章:
0
37 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 05:24 |只看該作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:42 發(fā)表


雖然我就這么被你“科普”完了,但不得不申辯一下我一點也沒有想用測不準原理來支持中醫(yī),而是當成兩個完全不同的話題,每次討論測不準原理我都是嚴格限制在微觀量子領域的,你從我回復的所有帖子都能看出, ...

抄寫得很好,就是沒懂。
The uncertainty principle is often explained as the statement that the measurement of position necessarily disturbs a particle's momentum, and vice versa—i.e., that the uncertainty principle is a manifestation of the observer effect.

This common explanation is incorrect

這段話就在同一行文中。

再仔細品味這幾個字:“related” 和"it is often conflated”。

論壇徽章:
0
38 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 05:25 |只看該作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 04:00 發(fā)表


我還特地說明給你推薦的“不傷腦細胞”的“小品文”,真是可惜了我對你的情商的估計。以后我對你的回復一定都會很嚴肅的。參看34和35樓

知道不夠嚴肅,那很好

論壇徽章:
0
39 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 05:29 |只看該作者
原帖由 Wind-Son 于 2009-6-2 03:45 發(fā)表
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Uncertainty_principle
最好是看看鏈接原文

The uncertainty principle,' sometimes called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, states that interaction a ...

還是抄寫沒過腦子。同一行文里的這句話看見沒有?
It is understood that the uncertainties in the system exist prior to and independent of any the measurement, and the uncertainty principle is therefore more fundamental than the observer effect.

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CU大;照
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日期:2013-04-17 11:48:40CU大;照
日期:2013-04-17 11:48:45摩羯座
日期:2013-12-06 18:10:04
40 [報告]
發(fā)表于 2009-06-02 07:04 |只看該作者
中醫(yī)討論之熱讓我感動。但是建議另開個哲學版塊供各位抒發(fā)高見。
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